TexasHoldemPoker-UK

[Andy]

Strictly speaking you should check a drawing hand where possible to get a free card and complete a 'made' hand, call if the pot odds are in your favour or fold if they are not. However, I got to thinking that a weak drawing hand which is drawing to a flush (this doesn't apply so much to straight draws) could warrant a bet if there are enough players in the pot. The reason being that it is kind of an inverse bet to the one you make if you flopped a pair and wished to push off the drawing hands.

To explain further, consider this example:

You hold 3d4d in the BB and get to check the flop. Flop is fairly innocuous with 2 diamonds on board, say 7d8d3s or something.

Let's say that 5 people called pre-flop, even if you all check the flop and you make your hand on the turn, you will start doubting it since you hold the weakest flush possible. Should you bet (especially if in late position) in order to push off those playing high cards or a weak pair or should you check and see what comes next and go from there?

The problem I see with checking is that if you make your hand and check, anyone betting into you presents a problem and if you make your hand then bet and get raised, you again have a problem (a bigger one this time since you have chips committed).

Any thoughts?

[bodnotbod]

My post has to be seen in the understanding that:

1. I play micro-limits.
2. I may not know what I'm talking about

But, yes, I often bet the turn if I've got a dodgy draw, or even if I have the nut flush draw.

In the games I play you'll generally see a lot of people call a bet on the turn since it seems such a miniscule amount of money (5c in the games I play) so it always seems to increase the pot size and then improves my odds for paying to see the river too.

I don't have much evidence for this, but I would assume that the best, most disciplined players are those liable to fold to a bet at this point, so it could be that the quality of my competition is reduced by the bet too, which is obviously a good thing.

I guess it also has deceptive value. It would appear counterintuitive to others that I'd bet ifI'm waiting for another suit.

You also, provided some players drop out, reduce your odds that you get beat if two more suited cards arrive on the turn or river - leaving a player with only (in your example) one high diamond able to win.

Unfortunately, I think it's highly unlikely - again, at my limits - that anyone with a better couple of diamonds would drop out to any bet since the pot odds are almost always there due to pre-flop action.

I think in real life the situation you describe would not arise for me too often, unless I get a free flop from the blinds, since I wouldn't play such low suited connectors.

[bodnotbod]

Oops, I just noticed that in your set up you're explicit about this occurring in the BB, so forget that last bit in my post. Glad to see I'm thinking along the same lines as the experienced chap.

[bodnotbod]

Just noticed that if the 5d 6d come on the turn and river in your example (and I know you were just using it as one example rather than being specific) you get a straight flush.

[B4ms]

Well, I also play with little bets. But I personally would fold. Because of the chances of winning it is in my opinion foolish to outbet someone. If you outbet someone you are lucky, but the chances of your opponent possessing a nice old king and ace of diamonds or something like that is as big as people folding because you bet 20 cents. I think the amount of pot money and the amount of betted money on the big blind and the 'called' money makes a big difference in type of play.